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Author Topic: Are public sightings and reports managed properly in emergencies?  (Read 7888 times)
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Chair
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« on: November 20, 2007, 06:46:36 AM »

I am the owner of a Cessna 336 based at Moorabbin. The C336 is similar to the C337 that went missing after leaving Moorabbin on Saturday 17th   November last.
My wife and her father (who were holidaying that day) spotted a 337 as it flew over Inverloch. They were staying in a house in View Street when the Cessna flew over rather low at about 1000 ft. She knew that it wasnít mine, but from her position she ascertained that it was heading towards the ocean.
She thought no more until I informed her the next day in the late afternoon, that a Cessna 337 was reported missing. It was Sunday at 5 pm when I reported the incident to the Australian Maritime Safety Authority.  I advised them that I was calling for my wife who was very familiar with the aircraft type and that she may have information that could assist the search. I told them that I was an owner of a similar Cessna and my wife was very familiar with these aircraft. I advised them to call her on her mobile as she could verify position and times. No call was made to her. The media later reported a person seeing a plane with smoke trailing at Orbost, this seemed to cancel out other sightings. 

The plane was found the next day in the water a few miles from where she saw it fly over.
My wifeís or other reports in the area were not followed through. For all we know, she may have been the only reliable witness prior to the crash that in hindsight would have happened minutes after her sighting. Her extra information may have assisted the search.
Again in hindsight itís very unlikely that lives would have been saved, but that was not known then. Also valuable searching was carried out in the wrong area.

Many questions went through our minds when we learned of the sad loss of four souls.

∑   Why didnít my wife receive a call back from AMSA?
∑   Why was the (false) Orbost report used as definitive?
∑   Why was the plane repeatedly reported as a twin (technically that is correct), but to the untrained observer viewing from below, it is a single?
∑   As it was observed to be flying low, why wasnít the public asked to report on a very loud aircraft (as it has no rear exhaust)?
∑   Why wasnít the public asked by the media to report if they had seen the unusual characteristics of the aircraft? There must have been dozens of sightings in the area prior to the crash.

What I do know is that my wifeís report did not appear to be taken seriously. As a fellow pilot of a similar aircraft and having a wife as a valuable witness, Iím appalled at the way this rescue seems to have been handled. 
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Javelin
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« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2007, 06:11:53 PM »

Excellent comments David, Lets hope some lessons are learned from this by AMSA.
Were these sent to a local news paper?

Chris
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« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2007, 08:20:56 PM »

Hello Chris, I think the ABC sent info of the story to regional newspapers. There are a few reports scattered over the net, but none have contacted us yet.
As usual the Local TV stations edited the crap out of the interview and missed the point completely.
Regards
David
« Last Edit: November 26, 2007, 08:56:53 AM by Chairman » Logged
senojn
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« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2007, 09:50:51 AM »


I agree,what a ludicrous and embarrassing situation for AMSA.

Just back but on that day 17/nov I was at the Temora Warbirds airshow looking at fantastic old aircraft but including a C337 (USAF 0-2A)
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« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2007, 09:07:43 AM »

Love to see that Neil.
(Stolen info) Two Cessna O-2s (military Cessna 337 Skymasters) currently grace the skies of Australia. One is owned and regularly flown by the Temora Aviation Museum, while the other belongs to a Randal McFarlane


* O2A.jpg (3.22 KB, 170x120 - viewed 441 times.)
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senojn
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« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2007, 08:00:23 AM »


Hi David,

You would love Temora Warbirds.

Sight and sound spectacular!

Long way to drive but maybe you could fly? Airfield is open to general aviation even on flying days.
Facilities are excellent-you can view from inside the new huge aircondioned hangar-doors open of course. Weather is always great there.
At end of flying displays you can walk up to the aircraft and speak to the pilots.

If you have'nt already, check out their website www.aviationmusuem.com.au


Cheers Neil
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senojn
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« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2008, 06:48:50 PM »

Hello David,
Have you heard anymore on the lost Cessna 337.
It seems to take so long for inquiries.
A Wirraway crashed in front of my wife and I a few years ago killing pilot and engineer instantly.
Can't find any follow up,not to be maudlin,these things interest me.

Kind regards ,

Neil
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« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2008, 09:05:05 AM »

Neil, I read in the latest crash mag, "Air Safety" that the 337 hit the water under power. The investigation is continuing. Basically it is believed it flew into fog and hit the deck. I'll post more when I hear. I dont know if they found the wreck yet. If they have they are not saying.
Re the Wirraway, If you know the rego number and actual date, it could possibly be traced on the CASA website.
I think it's a natural thing to investigate these things when we are affected by them. All pilots are curious about causes of crashes.
I really "enjoy" the Air crash investigation tv shows.
David
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senojn
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« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2008, 05:09:45 PM »

Thank you David for your response on the C337.Will await further.
The Wirraway was at an airshow at HMAS Albatross ,Nowra about 5/6 yrs ago so I will follow up on the CASA site.I think the pilot had the greatest number of ours in Australia ?
Aircrash investigation is fantastic and I could fill my viewing time with this type of entertainment.Fortunately these things don't happen relatively often .
My wife's cousin and mate of mine ,whom I have mentioned previously ,having flown many different aircraft all over, reflects anecdotally that of the 27 'drivers' he has known personally killed in aircrashes 26 have been due to pilot error.

Neil
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senojn
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« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2009, 03:52:20 PM »

Hello David,
Sorry, this is another one about the deceased.
The findings of the four killed in the  C337 skymaster apparently came out today.
It appears that the pilot was 'disoriented' and may have crashed inverted.
Looked at was said on this site at the time again and wonder if any/all of your comments were mentioned  or followed up at the investigation.
Were you, your wife or father law consulted?
The circumstances of this accident could well have been different and your concerns may well have saved lives,

Cheering up
Neil
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« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2009, 06:07:17 PM »

Hi Neil
I did eventually receive a call from the head of the Marine search and rescue, but it was more of a justification for not following up. All politics. He was VERY polite and invited me to visit their headquarters. I let it slide.

Thanks for the info, we had a hunch that it was pilot error.

David
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senojn
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« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2009, 03:09:42 PM »

Hi David ,
Mate ,a retired pilot to whom I had mentioned before rang last night and in part said he had met/spoken to a David (Canberra ? ) who is involved with 0-2's .You probably know of/him but Bob is visitng soon so can forward more info. if required.
By the way we  ,you and I ,had talked about the magnificent Air Crash Investigation program which I have seen numerous times and yesterday again watched the BA 747 over the Indonesian volcano which lost all four engines on two occassions.
In the early eighties I was responsible for the clearance and delivery of eight 25 mw gas turbines into Sydney to avoid possible winter electricity blackouts .Four were GE from the States four were AEG Germany.
The AEG units had problems with the coupling between  turbine and generator.
These I had to urgently fly out from Frankfurt quickest way possible.
One was routed via Perth and happened to be cargo on that BA flight.
To this day it has not turned up!

Regards  Neil
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« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2009, 03:24:13 PM »

Perhaps it was thrown out the back door in sheer desperation? Grin

I've seen that episode, it's one of my favouites. How those Rollers ever restarted I'll never know?? Huh
It just shows you how much crap (rock) they can ingest.

MERCMAN.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2009, 03:27:08 PM by MERCMAN » Logged

It's perfectly safe.. unless something goes wrong!
senojn
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« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2009, 06:20:43 PM »

Out the back door would probaly be ok because so many failed.
They actually join the turbine which are jet engines just the same as the Rollers but if you can't spin the generator you have just a lot of noise. They cost an absolute fortune as you can imagine.Each unit had 25 plus containers of accessories (black start equipment  ,exhaust stacks etc.)

The BA flight reminds me of the four engined aircraft that had no. 1 engine fail . The captain
told the passengers they would be delayed by 40 minutes .
No. 2  later folded and he explained that they would be delayed a further 1 hr 20.
When no. 3 spluttered and died he relayed a delay of about 4 hrs 20.
The 4th one went and he said wrly 'looks like we're going to be up here all day !
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« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2009, 07:02:51 AM »

No Neil,
Nothing to do with O2s. Or for that matter 337s. Being the only 336 owner is certainly a lonely business. Lucky we have a a band of friendly boaties to entertain us when the weather is bad.
Loved your tale about the engine failures. I know a similar story that I dare not publish here.

David
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