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Author Topic: Capricious - The Project  (Read 47182 times)
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AaronJ
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« on: October 30, 2010, 08:50:22 PM »

Thought I'd start posting a few pics of the overall project.

As many will know I've made a small start on the trailer and even smaller start on the boat.

Currently the boat looks like this:



And the trailer is now being welded back together (and shortened) so is further progressed than this:



Today I picked up the last of the big three items... the motor... and I suspect I have bitten off an even bigger challenge than the boat and trailer put together. It is even further removed form anything I have prior experience with, but, I'm tentatively up for the outboard mechanic challenge. Time to track down a workshop manual me thinks!!!

Its a 1967 MERC 650SS short shaft that it missing bits and ceased. However, all the shiny bits are in great condition and the motor 'looks' really clean under the covers:





My first comment is... HOLY CRAP its a big motor. Almost burst something (on me that is) hand lifting it onto the stand (yes on my own). Had to be 80kg+.

Capricious is either going to sink or be a rocket ship.

Serious Q thought... it really does seem very big and heavy (and I assume powerful)... do you think its to much for the boat???
« Last Edit: October 30, 2010, 08:55:56 PM by AaronJ » Logged

slowpoke
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« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2010, 01:51:54 AM »

Hi Aaron,
You've made a start and made progress, providing you don't stop it will get finished. Unfortunately, life gets in the way sometimes!

That motor looks huge because you know how heavy it is! I use an automotive engine hoist and the motors don't seem so large.  :-)
In the US it is a well respected motor. I don't believe it is too big and many Glasspar G3s (your size but different shape hull) run with this motor. Performance wise it can be compared to the 70hp Johnson 3-cyl (70s-80s) and you will be thrilled with the performance. Good props are around. Two G3 friends in the US are continually in competition with each other, one with a 650SS and the other with a worked Stinger (75hp version). The Stinger only just wins.
The Mercs of the 50s and 60s look better through my eyes than any other outboard, even though I mostly choose to run OMC because of the salt water here.
What bits are missing from your motor?
Ken
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Chair
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« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2010, 06:42:33 AM »

Hi Aaron and Ken
I agree that this 65 is a good choice for this boat as it will give you a few extra thrills than a more conservative size. I run an earlier model 65 and love it. Yes salt is not kind with our mercs, but don't let it stop you. There is a new product I believe that you attach and flush your Merc with.   
Where to start with your Merc. When you start to pull it apart, I'd suggest to drop the lower unit first.  On the powerhead, unless someone has good advice, be prepared to shear off the water jacket bolts for a start. I'd systematically seek advice if I was you as the workshop manual won't tell you all. I thought I new a fair bit about these motors, but ripping down the powerhead is an interesting challenge for a novice. Mercman to the rescue, he has a wealth of experience on this particular model, we both have huge affection for this model.
David
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slowpoke
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« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2010, 09:58:58 AM »

Frozen steel bolts in aluminium, locked up motors ....

Here's a tip from a pal in the US who is 35 years an outboard mechanic:
1) Presoak the part with WD40
2) Send your wife out shopping for a couple of hours,
3) Remove ALL plastic or rubber parts from the powerhead, gearbox, whatever ...
4) Put it in the oven @ 350F for 45 minutes
5) While still hot the stubborn bolts will come out
6) Don't cook in the oven until it has been cleaned

Ken
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AaronJ
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« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2010, 10:13:51 AM »

Morning guys,
Thanks for the confirmation on the motor size. I feel much more at ease after the shock of seeing how big it was in the flesh.

I know this is a silly little detail, but I am really excited about the motor (which is mostly black with silver, red and white highlights) being exactly what I was toying with for the boat (White with red and black highlights and metallic trimmings). Its resolved one of the choices I was most stuck on.

Ken,
Parts.... there are plenty of little nuts, bolt and bits missing. The lower unit (gearbox?) is already off (I have it zip-tied in place for the photos) and until I start pulling things apart I may not know fully.

However, I know some of the big things missing/wanted:

  • The biggy is I need to find a forward control, from the control box itself right back to the 6/7-pin harness plug and the throttle/shifter cables, which have nothing more than the linkage bolts sitting inside the cowl. I am not even sure which version/model I need so any help is greatly appreciated.
  • A big want is tilt rams or some kind of tilt system to suit. Again, not sure where to start here in terms of what will fit/work and even if there was tilt systems for these motors.

Dave,
I was just saying to my girlfriend this morning, that with the motor now home, its the first part of the project that I am actually threatened by. I can build and make anything with a bit of research my new welding, glassing, electrical, etc skills have been a sinch, but engine mechanics I have never really toyed with, little own an outboard. Nervous as I am about it I will give it a crack and most certainly be referring back to you guys each step of the way and may link to another motor specific thread off this one. I might even need to put beer and BBQ on offer to attract some in-person local help ;-)

As I mentioned above the lower unit was already off. The prop will spin one direction but not the other, so I think it is not ceased. Hopefully just a tear-down and rebuild. Unfortunately, the ceased issue seems to be with the motor, as I cannot get any movement out of the flywheel.

Externally at least, the powerhead looks really clean. Looks completely original with wiring good and supple and everything really clean looking (other than some oil around the place from an unknown source. I can see many of the nuts and bolts still have the seal in place and there is nothing I can see that looks after market.

There is a lot of sub-paint corrosion, so I'm not going to be happy without a full strip and repaint. So that means every nut and bolt will have to be disassembled. The metal trim is in great condition, so only some polishing there and I have found a place in the US that looks to make some great looking decal sets.

I am not 100% sure on the plan of attack yet though. I think I'll get back to the trailer first, then work on the boat and motor concurrently.

Aaron.


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AaronJ
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« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2010, 10:17:20 AM »

Sorry Ken,

You must have posted while I went for breaky mid reply.

Thanks for the tips.

I hope once I get into the motor I'll dine a simple explanation that is not to catastrophic to it.

Would the tip apply to a ceased transom bolt (when I get to it)? The one in the photo with the plastic grip missing will not budge.
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slowpoke
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« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2010, 10:49:51 AM »

Aaron,
Re clamp bolt, clean as much of the thread as you can. Continually squirt WD every couple of hours for a couple of days (or if dismantled soak). Add heat (with care - ally will suddenly collapse when it reaches melting point, it is not a gradual softening). What you are trying to do is break the seal caused by the corrosion/inter-reaction between the two metals. I don't know if it is different expansion rates or something else that the heat does to break down the corrosion. Once it moves a little, add WD and 'work' it just a bit more, gradually you will be able to revolve it completely. You should be heating the bolt and the casting. If dismantled, try the oven but be prepared to lose any plastic (handles), rubber or nylon bits. Worst case, cut off the bolt, drill & tap out the remaining and buy new bolts from the parts dealer or eBay US. I found it handy to register on eBay US as well as here. Most parts suppliers (whose listing says shipping to US only) will send to Oz if asked. USPS is the ONLY way, every other shipper (Fedex etc) is 3 to 5 times the cost.
Frozen powerhead or gearbox: I have been told that Auto transmission fluid is a good soaker to help unfreeze.
Wiring: Caution! Mercs ar known for their harness to become brittle. If in doubt replace. I have found new old stock (NOS) harnesses on eBay US.
Control box: Local wreckers or eBay. Asking here would be sensible too.
Corrosion: When you strip and repaint do some research on repainting aluminium - lots of advice out there via google. I am happy with Norgloss (www.norglass.com.au) products and they have an aluminium etch suitable for use here and good information on their site. Follow instructions AND cleanliness.
Most of all, have fun doing it. When it all looks pristine you will have a unique boat that will pull attention anywhere.
Ken
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AaronJ
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« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2010, 11:30:05 AM »

Thanks again for all the great tips Ken. Just went and restocked on WD40 ;-) Prop/shaft and clamp bold both being doused regularly!

OK, here are my other two big sticking points:



On the left is the shifter shaft bush, which I cannot for the life of me work out how to remove. Once out the whole shaft should come out.

On the right is the main drive shaft bearing. The retaining clip is out, but the bearing will not budge even with some sharp tugging on the shaft (outwards as there is about 0.5-0.75mm free-play).

Anyone got any bright ideas as once these are out the lower unit almost completely disassembled?

I came across my first possible 'bugger' moment too. Where the drive shaft passes through the water pump seals (three of), it has some pitting. Certainly as it is it will not form a good seal so I will have to look at whether the shaft surface can be cleaned up without looking too much shaft diameter, or, whether I'm going to have to find another shaft.
Aaron.

Aaron.
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MERCMAN
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« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2010, 02:09:38 PM »

Forgive me Aaron for missing the point, but what are you doing tearing the box apart. I just thought the motor was seized, not the box Huh
Although, you are going pretty good so far! Cool

MERCMAN.
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It's perfectly safe.. unless something goes wrong!
AaronJ
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« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2010, 03:50:17 PM »

Fair enough question...

The mechanical reasons:
1. The motor is a total unknown in terms of its condition so to check it all out makes sense to me both mechanically and form a safety perspective once its all up and running. Plus having now found water in the gearbox confirms that I chose to take it this far.
2. I want to repaint the whole outboard to as new condition (like the example you showed but to which all posts, including mine, seem to have been removed from the thread  Huh ). To do that I need to strip all the major components so they can be sent away for blasting and then painting.
3. I want to know that every nut and bolt are in good condition (already finding seal, o-ring and gasket issues in the water pump).

The personal reasons:
1. I'm anal about having things perfect. Cannot see the point of doing the job unless its done 100%. Capricious is little more than a damaged fiberglass hull/shell and the trailer is a rusted frame. Every single inch of them needs repairing, fixing and work, so why not the motor to.
2. The challenge.
3. The immense sense of accomplishment 'IF' I can pull it off.

Reason's enough?

 Wink



* merc reco 67.JPG (88.72 KB, 700x728 - viewed 349 times.)
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Chair
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« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2010, 03:44:19 PM »

Aaron
I had a minute and thought I'd have a play with your boat (I'm a photoshop novice as you can see) I hope you don't mind. My reasons for this design is that the front looked a bit heavy to me so I chucked some of the blue down below and thinned out the stripes to look more "marine" . Yes or no  Undecided , I'm thick skinned and it's your project.
David


* Aarons boat 1.JPG (31.8 KB, 600x450 - viewed 364 times.)
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AaronJ
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« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2010, 07:02:07 AM »

I like it. More stylish and subtle than my attempt.... but.... you knew there'd be one....

The pendulum that is my mind is back to the original colour scheme (white with black and red highlights) in order to match the motor.

Maybe all the thick stripes are black and the thin strips are a dark cherry red to match the stripes on the outboard?

I should start a design competition and offer up a prize to the chosen design (I'm not very arty)...
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AaronJ
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« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2010, 08:01:52 PM »

Back to my orig colour scheme and to match the motor... how about this rough idea?




I am pretty set on the colours (red, white, black and silver/chrome, with a grey interior) but still lots of work on the layout and stripes.
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Chair
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« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2010, 08:29:46 PM »

Are you thick skinned Aaron? Well you asked for it,
No way on a boat would I do an in balance. Looks like it will slip sideways and sink. I love your idea of the colours, but get rid of the GT stripes, it's a boat not a Ford. Design is really an intricate thing,
It's your boat, but it needs comments here guys,  what do others think, am I being unfair? Your boat needs to pick up the lines of the Glasspar G3 in my opinion. I tried this with a Javelin once. Here is the result.

Chair man



* g3f.JPG (40.19 KB, 587x393 - viewed 323 times.)

* g3 jav1.JPG (28 KB, 500x375 - viewed 337 times.)

* glaspar g3.JPG (14.73 KB, 253x318 - viewed 326 times.)
« Last Edit: November 12, 2010, 08:48:50 PM by Chairman » Logged
1shashlik
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« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2010, 05:44:48 AM »

WOW these are both very nice colour designs. I lean towards Aarons off-centre double stripe in red (looks very fast).
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